IOSH 2014 Big Debate: ‘You are a regulator. Stick to regulating.”

Safety & Health Practitioner

More from IOSH 2014: Kevin Furniss – ‘leadership first, not safety’

 

The finale of IOSH 2014 took place on 18 June with Andrew Sharman, Andrew Sharman Safety and Risk Consulting, moderating The Big Debate, where deregulation was the topic up for discussion.

 

The eight-strong panel, consisting of Gerald Forlin QC, Kevin Furniss, Judith Hackitt CBE, Hugh Robertson, Neal Stone, Dr Janet Asherson, Shaun Lundy and Dominic Cooper, used the end of a busy two days to talk about what deregulation means for the UK and whether it is necessary.

 

Judith Hackitt, chair of HSE, was quick to defend the deregulatory agenda. “Beware the spin,” she said. “And look at the substance. It’s not a great deregulatory agenda. It’s actually an exercise in housekeeping.”

 

She explained that deregulation was about cleaning up the current legislation and making regulation relevant and fit for purpose, as well as simple to understand for small businesses.

 

The draft Deregulation Bill 2013 sets out to amend or repeal 182 pieces of legislation. The cabinet office describes it as the latest step in the drive to remove unnecessary bureaucracy.

 

The news, announced in January, that the self-employed would be exempt from health and safety law was a hot topic of discussion with the panel. The law is estimated to save the government £300,000 a year, which Andrew Sharman calculated, equated to a saving of 37.5p per self-employed person.

 

 

Hackitt argued that the savings would actually be significantly more than that, although Hugh Robertson, senior policy officer for the Trades Union Congress, didn’t think that any money would be saved with deregulation.

 

“It’s important to say, that this is one of the few deregulation things that has come through, as oppose to simplification,” said Robertson. “This actually removes regulation and protection.”

 

He argued that the only people who would gain from the self-employed deregulatory agenda would be safety consultants, as they would be the ones self-employed people would turn to for help.

 

Shaun Lundy, academic portfolio leader for the safety, health, occupational hygiene and environment programmes at the University of Greenwich, said that there wasn’t a lot of evidence to show that following regulation costs businesses any money.

 

“We have a very healthy regulatory philosophy in the UK, and it is replicated and recognised around the globe,” he said. “There’s an over-reliance often on this belief that deregulation will save money. It doesn’t always do that.

 

“There are many other drivers that promote growth in business – deregulation is perhaps just a small element of that. I would argue that healthy, safe, happy workers are probably some of the more significant elements of growth.”

 

With the HSE having come under fire recently over the Fee For Intervention (FFI) scheme, the question of commercialisation of the regulator was raised.

 

Judith Hackitt expressed the opinion that in order for the HSE to sell its knowledge and expertise to other parts of the world, there was a need to preserve the reputation and brand of HSE, and thereby it had to carry on being a first-class regulator, otherwise there would be nothing to sell.

 

Dominic Cooper, CEO, B-Safe Management Solutions, agreed that the reputation of HSE had to remain intact, however, he raised concerns that a conflict of interest would arise from the consultancy services HSE offers, and the inspections.

 

“Suddenly, there’s a huge conflict of interest,” he said to Hackitt. “You are a regulator. Stick to regulating. End of story.”

 

Neal Stone, policy and communications director, British Safety Council, said a lot of small organisations are put off by the complexity surrounding health and safety, which he said posed a big risk to society as a whole.

 

“We’ve got to keep improving,” he urged. “It’s not that the law shouldn’t apply to small business, of course it should, but we’ve got to improve and step up in terms of advice and guidance that we give.”

 

Taking the view that deregulation is a good thing was Kevin Furniss, vice president HSSE, Moller-Maersk Terminals, who also said he wanted to see a more commercialised HSE, arguing that the regulator has been far too focused on penalties and punishments rather than being an organisation that helps business, and is able to go into organisations without fear.

 

Janet Asherson, adviser for environment, health and safety, International Organisation of Employers, guided the panel towards looking at the reputation of HSE in the UK and abroad.

 

She argued that the derogatory view of health and safety that seems so prevalent in the UK hasn’t permeated abroad.

 

“We’re still seen as extremely professional,” she said. “Very few countries have got this framework where everybody owns a commensurate duty to the person they’re interacting with. That framework is not out there in the international world. Large chunks of businesses and the self-employed are not covered.”

 

Our system is envied, she said, because we have a good balance between the big and little businesses with nobody being blameless.

 

Gerard Forlin QC, Cornerstone Barristers, agreed, saying the UK is the envy of the world with its safety record and expressed his concern at changing the regulation when it seems to be working.

 

“We have, along with the Swedes and a couple of others, the best death safety rate in the world,” he said. “Obviously it’s still too high, but it’s definitely going in the right direction, and I’m really scared about fiddling with this.”

 

Closing the debate, Andrew Sharman asked the panel to sum up their thoughts on the deregulatory agenda.  

 

“Keep the regulation as is,” said Cooper, “Get people to stop over interpreting laws.”

 

Kevin Furniss said: “If we think we still need to rely on regulations forty years later were kidding ourselves and we haven’t moved on at all,” said Furniss.

 

“We have the best health and safety system in the world,” said Judith Hackitt. “The custodians of that system, of which I am the leader, do not intend to allow that system to be broken.”